介绍:
Welcome back to our fire chat session 第二期，and we have Lily back with us again. 上一期我们介绍了Lily，这一期我们聊一聊职场。
#Marketing # MarTech #Career #国外 ＃职场 ＃市场学 ＃营销科技
格子：So,你一直是受着西方的教育，how do you identify yourself，as a Chinese or as an Australian?
It’s an important one and hard to tackle because I would’ve imagined how you’ll be carrying this through into your adulthood and of course into the workplace?
Li：我其实一直没觉得我必须把自己设定为一个“中国人”还是“澳洲人”用我现在的成熟度来讲我认为我是中国人既是澳洲人。 虽然从小就受西方的教育，我的思维和逻辑的确是西方的一套，但是我在家里还是和家人说着中文，去理解中国人的一套思维方式。起码在习惯上，还是有些挺根深蒂固的东西 比如：中国人教育自己的孩子需要节约，如何理财，尊敬长辈，帮助家人等等，如果别人帮助你，你也得帮助别人。I mean we were far away from our relatives but we try to stay close where possible.
格子：On identity, let’s hold that thought, 我想知道，你是原本走专业音乐路线的又是什么让你改变了主意，从了商科？
Li：其实我的父亲在这方面影响了我不少。 他也是一位专业搞音乐的，但是后来他去从了商，当时我也有帮助过他做一些简单的 marketing, creating brochures, I guess I got a bit of a taste for it and what that path may look like。
格子：Why Marketing then?
Li：我像其他外国人同学，觉得市场经济比较有意思，不算文科不算理科（但是很多课目都参和进去了）所以我个人认为给了我足够的空间去发挥。 我觉得也给了我足够的创造空间。 Marketing now is not what it used to be.其实我那时候“意识”到Internet Marketing 也是差不多马腾华他们开启了腾讯的时候。Yeah so back in 1998。当我真正步入了 Internet Marketing 是十年后了。
格子：Would you share with us how you started this journey of yours? And how far you’ve come?
Li：Gosh where do I start? 在我大学最后一年还没结束，我就开始找工作了， 想赶在毕业之前有点经验，这样毕业后能有多一些选择。 我当时也没有好好去策划，我就报纸上找了一份工。谁晓得当时这是一匹新型 Marketing, at the time it was called affiliate marketing. 就是把website traffic, 客户运去你“所谓”感兴趣的网站啊，一般都是一些消费网站。 然后我们公司是中间人收commission. 这也就是等于你送去几个人可能给你几毛美元，但是这是一个量。 It's a quantity game, not quality. 其实看看现在网络上的display ad 类似pay per click, whereas affiliate marketing back then was a bunch of pop-ups and it re-directs you to another site.
格子: So we would’ve been on the opposite ends, I hate ads full stop.
Li: Right so you can imagine this model doesn’t last and governance was needed, and the ethics of it was highly frowned upon.
格子:说说你的第一份正式工？因为我知道你经历，在10年里你选择了有十家公司？What were you thinking then?
Li: Yeah it’s always hard to get your first job and getting it right isn’t going to be easy, because you don’t have a benchmark to go with. Unless you have some good advice. I was lucky enough to have met the founder of a traditional agency. The traditional agency is defined as, outdoor media, television and radio.
They usually have a production team with creatives, they usually come up with the ideas and copy. The rest of the team will execute it. In a traditional agency model, you also have a very large accounts team. They manage relationships with clients.
格子: uh huh. Like Mad man.
Li: So he recommended I should try and work at an agency. And there I was I still remember calling up one of the agencies and the head of HR told me there’s literally no availability for interns. But she did mention, ring back in 6 months time.
I didn’t give up, and I did ring her back in 6 months time, telling her during the last 6 months what I’ve achieved and how I have advanced. I’m more keen than ever to join the agency. She actually remembered me and luckily they had a tough assignment that needs solving which involves marketing and engaging different demographics Online. Back then you'd be surprised not many people are familiar with Youtube, online forums, and my previous experience came in handy. That’s how I got my foot in the door.
格子:I’m going to probe a little deeper, 你觉得当时agency的环境是怎样的？ 毕竟这些大广告公司白人占大多数。How did you fit it? Or rather not fit in?
Li:何止占大多数， 这家大广告公司可以从300人到-400人员工 忙起来到800多人。当时就我一个亚洲人，说没有压力是不太可能的。
I think I never had the urge to always having to fit in.
Fitting in means you’ll have to be compliant, you may have to take a side which you do not believe in. And condone some of the behaviours which you disagree with. Whether it was consciously or unconsciously I was learning quickly, much of it was listening, and trying to make a difference where I can, for that I think people will respect that.
These days the Americans call it, bring your authentic self, how I see it was doing the right thing for the clients and the company.
格子:看着你的经历，你从这家大公司 几个月里面跳了三家 为何？
Li: I think for a graduate having just graduated not so long ago and got her first official job, it would’ve been hard to decide when to move on. 我的中国人的意识，警告着我就是好不容易进了这么大的广告公司好好干上几年？ 和同事们打好关系，再一步步升。
No, it doesn’t work like that, and certainly at the time things are beginning to change, you start see a shift from traditional media to more online medium. 所以当时我是随着项目的去向来选择接下来一步，自己的去向的。And now, the technology is moving so fast, practitioners like ourselves are trying to stay afloat, we’re moving at such a rapid pace, I’m seeing people in my industry which is Media & advertising and Marketing Technology sectors tend to move every 2-3 years. Unlike the generations before us, 这工作一呆就能呆个 8年到十五年。
格子:Again, looking back at your journey, you left the advertising agency and went to an Email Marketing agency? Must’ve been quite a shift?
Li:我还是挺幸运的在广告公司里能从不同的项目里学习到不一样的skills. 比如当时我接触到制作网页啊，到摸索一些后台平台等，所以后来转去做邮件商务marketing 并不觉得它很奇怪／陌生的领域。
虽然我当时从来都没有接触过这块领域。从我高傲的问道“啊原来还有人再使用／看邮件啊？ ，你看到现在我都花了8年多的时间在这番领域里”但是也在这8年里见过不少这方面的科技平台。
格子：Yeah I mean I shouldn’t be amazed by the fact you’d evolved quickly and moved from being an Account team person into building new business units for some of the world’s top 10 Marketing Technology companies. How did you nagivate this landscape?
Li:Through perseverance, and hard work (but everyone would know that) There is no set formula in doing this, and looking back, there’s no winning just learning and giving back what you’ve learnt. It’s a constant thing.
And not afraid of being who you are and what you believe in. Which means you will be faced with challenges which you’ve never seen or dealt with before but when faced with it, don’t shy away from it, and do it with dignity/humanity.
格子：Which I want to bring us back to talk a little more about identity - How do you find your identity amongst all these changes?
Li: To me identity isn’t one thing, it evolves as we or I evolves and changes.
We may be given a set of identities when we were born, then a family we were raised in (who, give or take provides the first flux of what makes of our identity) then through educations and peers we grow. Through experience hopefully we better ourselves and the people around us.
If you could give advice to upcoming marketers, what would it be?
- Take on the hard challenges or the difficult projects, they are the most interesting and hopefully you would’ve enjoyed the process at the end of it.
- Don’t be afraid to challenge the norm, but make sure you back it up with facts!
- Make lots of notes! You never know when it might come handy one day
my 10c piece:
- One of the most valuable lessons of my life is to view uncertainty as an opportunity rather than a liability.
谢大家的收听。如果你对访谈里那方面感兴趣又或者更想深入了解的话，欢迎你回复。
Ps. By Dignity, Lily actually means “humanity” (¬_¬)
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